Empty Emblems.

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Haelstrom
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Haelstrom »

Lock the thread, suggestion be over.
Last edited by Haelstrom on Tue Feb 09, 2010 12:40 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Dowe
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Dowe »

Although I have no problem with the current system, it is only a matter of time before some idiot decides they want to abuse this in some form or another.

Frankly I think any guilds who use the same image as another should fall under the "Don't be an idiot" rule (unless they are allied). If an enemy guild is purposefully using a similar emblem for WoE and changing their emblem back again afterward, then the GUILD LEADER should be warned for a first offense. If the action is repeated then the guild leader should be punished in some form or another.

A "similar emblem" would be an emblem with the same shape/colour/style as another guild. If you can quite obviously tell the difference between them instantly, then it is alright. If however the image has had a minor change, then this would fall under the same rule as above.

As for an "Empty Emblem", I think we should restrict it. It would only be a matter of time before someone regularly does it. After that others might get angry and do the same... followed by another guild... and another. Might seem unlikely but it isn't as though this stuff doesn't happen. It would only take one week of this crap and people would decide they don't want to WoE anymore or just Ragequit the server.

____________________________________________________________

And as many of the others have pointed out, this simple rule would not alter the core game mechanics, or WoE in any major way. All it would do is ensure emblems are easily identifiable in WoE. I very much doubt this will open the path for core game mechanic changes as Celia suggested. The two are unrelated and on top of that, the AmistrRO staff are significantly reluctant to make any changes to skills or core mechanics.
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by discostick »

As for an "Empty Emblem", I think we should restrict it. It would only be a matter of time before someone regularly does it. After that others might get angry and do the same... followed by another guild... and another. Might seem unlikely but it isn't as though this stuff doesn't happen. It would only take one week of this crap and people would decide they don't want to WoE anymore or just Ragequit the server.
empty emblem only works with guild with little woe active members. On large scale it will only make guild organization bad. Everyone kills random guild-less/empty emblem people even if they cause no harm, so it is obvious what will happen when they are also harmful. The large guild with no emblem will get confused amongst themselves and ends up with horrible organization.

Conclusion:
It won't be used in serious woe among leading guilds.
And as everyone agreed, ppl that does it in serious woe is no threat at all so why bother.
Changing something that does not matter only waste time and lead to more problems.
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Haelstrom
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Haelstrom »

discostick wrote:Conclusion:
It won't be used in serious woe among leading guilds.
Doesn't matter, it will make those who aren't leading guilds have even more difficulty especially between RO rage-fests which we both know occur.. all the time.
And as everyone agreed, ppl that does it in serious woe is no threat at all so why bother.
Changing something that does not matter only waste time and lead to more problems.
It leads to no problems that I can possibly chalk up, and will if anything make the possibility of it becoming a problem null ahead of time. Preemptive work > clean up after this does and eventually will cause a stink, besides all the other reasons raised in this thread.
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by cometodru »

I can't believe this thread was ever created. You're all pretty much arguing in circles about something so minute.

If they don't have a guild emblem or a super small one, kill them.

If they have your guild emblem, I should hope you know your guild members well enough to distinguish a fake. If not, then you're not as close of a guild as you'd like to believe. So get to know your members, their playing styles, and their character pallets.

OR you can continue on with arguing in circles.

This is more a matter of WoE etiquette. It's not going to make or break a server. Nor is it going to really affect the outcome of WoE. It's commonly understood to not do stupid things with your guild emblems. However, it occasionally happens. What are you going to do? Stop precasting so someone who you think is your guild mate, because they have your emblem, comes into your emp room because they keep dying? OH WAIT! If they're dying, then they're not in your guild. Problem solved. Not attack someone who doesn't have a guild emblem? No. The idea is to kill anyone who isn't in your guild anyways. Yet another problem solved.

Aside from the fact that you're just annoyed, which you could just deal with [yet another thing solved], because it only seems to be bothering you enough to make a post suggesting regulations on what guild emblems we can use, why go through the trouble of arguing this for three pages?


Nothing... else... to... do....
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Pie »

Make a rule saying 50% of the emblem must be in opaque colors at WoE.
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Phaiyte »

Pie wrote:Make a rule saying 50% of the emblem must be in opaque colors at WoE.
And must be large enough to distinguish while in the castle.

/thread
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Pie »

If 50% of the image is opaque, then it'll have to be pretty big anyway xD Even if someone tried to do a load of black dots
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To cover 50% of it would make it still be pretty visable.
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Haelstrom »

cometodru wrote:This is more a matter of WoE etiquette. It's not going to make or break a server. Nor is it going to really affect the outcome of WoE. It's commonly understood to not do stupid things with your guild emblems. However, it occasionally happens. What are you going to do? Stop precasting so someone who you think is your guild mate, because they have your emblem, comes into your emp room because they keep dying? OH WAIT! If they're dying, then they're not in your guild. Problem solved.
You're over-simplifying the matter. Someone gets in a larger emp room and recalls with no emblem, that can take a second to catch. Not to mention whether this is an effective tactic or not (it usually isn't, I acknowledge that), it's still in poor tastes not to mention ..

..well, read the first three pages. Repeating myself isn't fun.
Not attack someone who doesn't have a guild emblem? No. The idea is to kill anyone who isn't in your guild anyways. Yet another problem solved.
Offense can have duplicate guilds wreck them while they build up outside the Emp room. I've seen more idiotic things happen, as it is - guilds on offense here tend to not have raw blitzing power and rather come ahead by war of attrition. When that is compromised, which this would do the job proper upon, their chances of ever taking a castle while having to worry about their own numbers being infiltrated are dismal at best unless they waste time setting up a pre-cast just to weed out people outside of the Emp room, which can also be penetrated (especially on guilds with poor communication, no matter how well oiled a guild is - there'll be plenty of people who'd see a recall between their numbers with the same emblem and think their guild leader did it for a few seconds. By the time they'd see the error of this, too late.)

Where there's potential, there will be execution.
Aside from the fact that you're just annoyed, which you could just deal with [yet another thing solved], because it only seems to be bothering you enough to make a post suggesting regulations on what guild emblems we can use, why go through the trouble of arguing this for three pages?


Nothing... else... to... do....
I'm not just annoyed. Me and a variety of other people clearly dislike utilizing out-of-skill means of getting an edge whether they're effective or not, as we believe it cheapens the WoE, and the guilds doing it.

Also, it's "only bothering me enough" to post a suggestion? What do you expect me to do in contrast, go to Amistr's physical server and start beating it with a hammer until emblem-less guilds get perma-banned?

Suggestions are what shape this server when approved or denied, and though this suggestion can of course be approved of or denied, it is entirely my right to suggest it.

As for the 3 pages of argument, that was largely because I was debunking false information and bizarre "dog rape circle" accusations. Ultimately, it lead to something of a common ground. What can I do.

My more pressing question to you would have to be: why be against this rule if again, it affects you so little? I'd be pressing to say you are a member of or friends of a guild who has done this, because otherwise there'd be no logical reason to be so against it if you yourself claim it has no baring.

Mind giving me a reason why it's not a good suggestion, aside from the fact you think it can't do anything obstructive (which I've shown examples where it certainly can, offensive and defensive)?
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Re: Empty Emblems.

Post by Celica »

Haelstrom wrote:You're over-simplifying the matter. Someone gets in a larger emp room and recalls with no emblem, that can take a second to catch.
Why are they even getting to your emp room? For that, why are they even able to cast in your emp room? Lack of monitors? No Ruwach or Sight runners? Large room or not, a good guild should not even have this problem. It's not like there's an entrance camping rule here. Real WoE guilds also monitor the entrance of their castle to see who's coming. Emblem or not is moot then.
Haelstrom wrote:I'm not just annoyed. Me and a variety of other people clearly dislike utilizing out-of-skill means of getting an edge whether they're effective or not, as we believe it cheapens the WoE, and the guilds doing it.
Funny since Guild's Glory even if disabled is a skill to put a guild emblem on. Our guild's emblem has always been an edge which we worked for and not something we drop for an edge.

"Cheapens WoE". I can't help but laugh at that statement. I hear this excuse everywhere I go for any suggestion. "Assassins cheapen woe", "guild recall cheapens woe", "multiclienting and assumptio buffing cheapen woe", "guild alliances cheapen woe", "friends working together cheapens woe", "ygg drop rate cheapens woe". It's as bad as the "everyone I know supports this. do it or we're moving".
Haelstrom wrote:As for the 3 pages of argument, that was largely because I was debunking false information and bizarre "dog rape circle" accusations. Ultimately, it lead to something of a common ground. What can I do.
Those 3 pages of arguments and false information are exactly what you're replying to again from other people. It's not my fault the point wasn't reached from my first post.

Maybe I should keep typing clearly. I was trying to dumb it down before.

The last time I walked into a castle without an emblem, I was raped by your guild. This was because I had no guild too. Wasn't a problem, was it? Therefore leading to if we really wanted to cause shat, we'd form an alternate band of players not in a guild and storm your castle. Then we'd send in our real guild with emblem. Does your suggestion take this into account too? We have a ton of throwaway characters. Or do you want to ban non-guilded players from even entering now too. Don't you consider the implications involved in this whole discussion yet?
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