A guide on card mechanics.

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Roy Revant
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A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Roy Revant »

Ok, I have decided to spend some of my time to enlighten you with the mechanics of cards, lets begin!

To explain better how cards work, you must first understand what your target is and how it is divided; a target (be it monster, boss or another player) has 3 different characteristics that define it, these are Size, Element and Race.




Target Description


1.-Categories
There are 3 different sizes: Small, Medium and Large.
There are 10 different elements: Neutral, Fire, Water, Wind, Earth, Shadow, Undead, Ghost, Poison and Holy.
There are 10 different races: Demi-Human, Brute, Insect, Formless, Demon, Undead, Fish, Plant, Dragon and Angel.

In addittion to the above, a target can also be divided in Boss or non-Boss characteristic. Targets that also happen to have the Boss characteristic enjoy a complete immunity to all negative status, as well as some ressistance to certain player skills such as Blade Stop or Intimidate.

2.-Examples
A target is defined by chosing one and only one option from each of the 4 characteristics, for example, a Poring is a Medium, Water-elemental Plant monster, Poring isn't a boss, so by defect, it is a non-boss.

On the other hand, a Kasa is a Large, Fire-elemetal Formless monster, that also happens to be a Boss, so, Kasa is immune to all bad status such as stun or freeze.





Optimizing Damage Output



Now that we understand how a target is catagorized, we can focus on compounding our equipment with cards accordingly to deal with them, but what is the best way to do so? We are about to discuss that.

First, lets begin with how to deal the most damage, and explain as well why 2 Hydras + 2 Skel Workers work better than 4 Hydras.

1.-Damage Modifier Boosters
When dealing damage, there are many, MANY things taken into consideration here, such as the kind of weapon you use, your Hit % and other crap that I won't bother you with, since we are focusing on cards for now.
Each parameter of the target (Size, Race & Element) enters in the equation to determinate the final damage.

Each card will sum up with other card that affects the very same parameter, while cards that affect different parameters will multiply each other, to explain better, lets use these cards:
Skel Worker (+5 atk and +15% dmg against Medium targets)
Vadon (+20% dmg against fire-elemental targets)
Goblin (+20% dmg against Brute targets)

Our target for now will be a Nine Tails (Medium, Fire-elemental Brute target)
Now, if we compound in our weapon 4 Skel Worker cards, we will end with a bonus of +20 atk and +60% dmg, while if we use 4 Vadon cards we end with a bonus of +80% to our dmg dealt.

Here is where it gets interesting, if we use 2 Vadon cards and 2 Goblin cards, we end with +96% bonus! But what happened? Shouldn't it be 40% + 40% from both sets of cards to result in a total of 80%? Well, this is where we multiply the bonuses instead of just adding them, since Race and Element are two different parameters, the bonus multiply between them to result in a superior combination.

2.-Mathematical Explanation
To look it as a math equation, the bonus would work like this:
(1 + Summatory of bonuses of Size cards) * (1 + Summatory of bonuses of Element cards) * (1 + Summatory of bonuses of Race cards)

So, if we use 4 Goblin cards, we end with something like this; (1)*(1)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 1.8 dmg or 180% dmg dealt.

But, if we use 2 Vadon & 2 Goblin cards, (1)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 1.96 or 196% dmg dealt.

Now we can appreciate better how this works! Combining cards to deal with different parameters of a target work and end in better results as for dmg it goes.




Optimizing Damage Reduction


1.-Reduction Cards
Now about defensive cards, such as Raydric and Thara Frog cards.

This is much easier to explain as to instead of having multiple options, we are just left with simple ones, the Garment slot takes care of the Element reduction, while the Shield slot takes care of both Race and Size reductions, but unless you are on a High Rate Server with custom slots, shields, if slotted, always have only one slot, so a Race card is very often a better choice over a Size card.


The reduction is also applied as a hit, just that instead of increasing we will be reducing dmg obviously, all Element reduction cards grant a 30% dmg reduction, with some exceptions such as Raydric card, so why is Raydric always the favorite card for Garment? What about the others? You see, when a monster (be it Boss or non-boss) hits, it always hits with the neutral element, be it a Merman, a Kasa, a Golem or a Roween, all monsters hit with neutral unless they use a skill/spell that specifies otherwise, for example, a Roween using Wind Attribute Attack, only in this instance will a Roween strike you with other element than neutral, and only in this case would the Dustiness card (-30% dmg from wind-elemental attacks) be useful.

With that in mind, since in most cases you will be killing your target before it uses any special attack such as any Element hit or cast a spell, Raydric is the card to use to effectively reduce dmg when in battle. Race and Size reduction cards always work regardless of the nature of the attack, if you are using a Thara Frog card and the dmg you are going to recieve comes from a Demi Human, then that dmg will be reduced by 30% as far as the Thara Frog card cares for this case.


2.-Elemental Switching Cards
These cards will change your element as they especify in their description, such as becoming Fire-elemental from using a Pasana Card, or becoming Shadow-elemental from using a Bathory card. The modifier for damage from the elements is located in a different step of the final damage calculation, but still, it will afect it, just consider element modifier as A and cards modifiers as B, and when calculating the final dmg it can be seen as (A)*(B).

The way elements modify dmg between them is a little confusing, as we have Ghost-elemental hits hurting Ghost Targets, and while Holy hurts Shadow, Shadow also happens to hurt Holy. If you want a detailed list on how elements ressists/hurts each other, click here.

3.-Examples

Lets suppose that a High Orc hits us with his Fire Attribute Attack skill, this attack is Fire-elemental and comes from a Demi-Human.

Just like Offensive cards, Deffensive cards work better if different parameters are taken care of, now lets assume we are using a Beret, a Thara Frog card, a Pasana card and a Jakk card.

The Pasana card makes us Fire-elemetal, that is a flat reduction of 75% from the dmg so far, in other words, for this case "A = 0.25".

As for the other aspects:
(1 - Summatory of Size modifiers)*(1 - Summatory of Element modifiers)*(1 - Summatory of Race modifiers) = B

(1 - 0)*( 1 - 0.3)*(1 - 0.1 - 0.3) = 0.42

(A)*(B) = (0.25)*(0.42) = 0.105

In the end, we have reduced the dmg recieved from the Fire Attribute Attack of the High Orc from 100% (ie. Naked) to 10.5% (ie. Equipped with the above mentioned stuff).



Cards that activate on a % basis



Now I will discuss about % of activation cards, be it % of dropping something, or % of activating a spell or a negative status into your target.

You can have as many of the mentioned above cards as the amount of slots in your equipment allows you to, ie, 4 Snake cards (causes poison status on target) on a Main Gauche [4]. The effectiveness of these cards also stack, but not directly, rather, it works like this:

Having 1 Snake Card gives you a 5% of causing Poison status on your target, having multiple Snake Cards gives you multiple chances.

The 4 rolls for Poison 5% are statistically equivalent to ...

P' = 1 - ( 1 - P )T
= 1 - ( 1 - 0.05 )^4
= 1 - 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95 * 0.95
= 0.185494

A single roll of 18,54%.

Same is true for cards that causes spells to happen on a % basis, ie, Mutant Dragonoid card, and cards that drop items such as Mimic card.

And to end this section of the guide...


Status Modifing Cards


These also directly stack, having 4 Female Thief Bug(FTB) cards in a Rod [4] will result in a bonus of 4 Agi points, or 2 Fabre cards and 2 FTB cards, that would equal 2 Agi and 2 Vit points.

This isn't limited only to the main Status, the secondary ones will also stack, multiple FTB cards will also add multiple Flee points, or multiple Andre cards will also add multiple Atk points, they can all work together.


Frequent Asked Questions (FAQs)


1.-What about multiple elemental targets? For example, I hear a frozen target gets the Water-elemental status, so if I freeze a Nine Tails, he is ressistant against Earth (because he normally is fire) as well as water since now he is also water?


As stated above, a target can only have one characteristic in each paremeter, by this I mean, a target can't never have more than 1 element, race or size simoultaneously, in the case of a frozen Nine Tail (or any other frozen target) it will be weak to wind and resist both water and fire attacks, but since it is no longer a fire monster, earth attacks will do a flat 100% dmg. Once the target looses the freeze status, it returns to it prior element, in this case, the Nine Tails goes back to fire element.

As for slotted elemental armors (ie. Aebeccee's Raging Typhoon Armor [1]) carded with a Element Switching card (ie. Pasana card), one will nullify and eliminate the other, the card always overrides the elemental property of the armor and will take place in the dmg calculations, so, even if you use a setup like the above, you are still vulnerable to water despite having a wind armor, because the element of the armor won't be taken into consideration for the equations due to the presence of a Element Switching card.

And just in case that you wonder what happens if you get frozen while using a elemental armor/Element Switching card, your element while frozen will always be Water, no matter what armor or card you are using. Be warned if you are frozen while using Ghostring!


2.-Why when using Ghostring I still take 100% dmg from monsters? Doesn't the Ghost element lv 1 has a 75% ressistance against neutral hits?

Monsters seem to bypass your Element if they are just using regular hits, in other words, it seems your Element will only be taken into consideration when they use a Skill/Spell. But, the Raydric and Shield cards should still reduce the dmg from regular hits, as well as some armors like the Diabolus Manteau or anything else that reduces Neutral dmg.
On a side-note, Homunculus hit with in the same fashion, so a Ghostring user should still take 100% dmg from regular hits coming from a Flir or so.


3.-Does bad status inflicting cards also work with +% bonus dmg cards?

Yes, they will, but if you are going for both kind of cards, then I advice having one weapon compounded fully with the desired bad status inflicting cards, and other weapon compounded to inflict the damage, and switch between the 2 as you see fit.

4.-Why my Rod [4] with 4 Hydras doesn't do more dmg against the High Orcs while using Storm Gust?

Simple, because cards that grant a dmg bonus won't work with spells, if you want to increase the damage of your magic with other means than more Int, then you must use cards that specifically increase dmg with said magics, like Salamander card or Pitman card.

5.-What about Abysmal Knight/Alice card?

Some monsters are Boss-Protocole, it isn't neccesary for a monster to be a MVP for it to be considered a Boss, the monster Kasa for example, is a Boss and enjoys all the bad status immunitties as well as some player skill ressistance, almost all the monsters in Thanatos Tower are also a good example here. Now these are the exceptions on how to card your weapon, because the AK card grants 25% instead of 20%, we deal with a little different setup here;

(1+AK bonuses)*(Rest of the formula)

Considering 4 slots, and the target be a Kasa, we can; use 4 AK cards or 3 AK cards and 1 Vadon card to have;

(1 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 2.0 or 200% dmg.

(1 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25)*(1 + 0.2) = 2.1 or 210% dmg.

Or if you would like to save up the AK cards, we can also use 2 AK cards and 2 Vadon cards for;

(1 + 0.25 + 0.25)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 2.1 or 210% dmg.

Interesting, eh?

As for the Alice Card, despite the penalty of recieving +40% dmg from the normal monsters, in places like Thor Vulcano or Thanatos Tower floor 8 and above, the amount of Bosses is almost absolute so the penalty becomes sort of inexsisstance.


6.-Specialization VS Versatileness?

If you happen to be in a Mid/High Rate Server, then I advice to card your weapons in way to cause the most damage against a target, but if you are on a Low Rate Server, I advice to also consider the versatile use of your weapon, while having specialzed carded weapons for each monster would be ideal, your pocket may not endure it, so consider sacrifing that dmg boost to expand your lving places with your given weapon. This is where I think bad status cards come into play, because these are cheap, easy to get and indeed universal, unless you are dealing with a Boss monster, said will be vulnerable to effects like stun, and while stunning may not directly result in a faster killing, it can lock the enemy and allow you to battle with more safety and thus have a prolonged rate of lving.

7.-I tried this on my server, it didn't work, why?

This guide is valid only for those servers that hasn't messed up how cards work, some private servers administrators has decided that cards need a "nerf" and somewhat has changed the mechanics for them, in the case of Amistr RO, this guide will be 100% valid, but if you see any differences here and where you play, ask your administrator what were the changes made.


8.-I hear the best way to card your weapon is to use 1x 15%, 1x 20% and 2x 20%, to give an example, against a Nine Tails, the best way would be 1 Skel Worker, 1 Vadon Card and 2 Goblin Cards, is this true?

That would be false, lets take a look at both cases:

(1)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 1.96

(1 + 0.15)*(1 + 0.2)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 1.932

Carding your weapon with 2x Race and 2x Elemental Modifiers is better than using 1x Size, 1x Elemental and 2x Race Modifiers, as far as amplifying goes. There will be cases in which the second case actually results in a superior final dmg, the reason of this is because the Size cards grant a +5 Atk bonus as well, sometimes, if your total attack is low, adding flat Atk bonus cards such as Zipper Bear or etc may be better than using Modifiers, to explain this better, lets consider you have a total attack of 1, in this case, adding Modifiers will only be able to amplify that little Atk status, they can improve it with a 1.96 effectiveness, but still, it won't result in heavy dmg, for this case, adding Atk improving cards like any Size Modifier cards, will result in an overall better dmg.


This won't be very evident in Low Rate servers, but on Mid/High Rate servers that disable the limit of 99 Base points, where you can get more than 99 STR/DEX points, thus, having a superior total attack, and in this case, amplifying will be better than adding attack.

You can calculate on your own here(sorry if it isn't updated), with your own build and conditions which may be better for you, the 1x, 1x, 2x or the 0x, 2x, 2x, just consider that for ultimate and highly specialized builds, breaking the point of where amplifying is better than adding, is easy to do.

9.-What cards that do not stack?

These cards are very rare, but to a point it is also obvious which won't stack, we can use for this example Drake card, the effect of the card is to skip the step in which the Size modification (not the same of the Size cards) enters into equation, so your damage won't be reduced by the weapon you use VS the Size of the target, for example, Knuckles do a 100% dmg against Small, 75% against Medium and 50% against Large targets. Drake card will allow you to skip those reductions and go to the card modifications step, several Drakes won't further increase your dmg, as they would all just skip the same step and not add a bonus. Another example would be Baphomet card, having multiple ones won't make your Area of Hit bigger, or hit multiple times in the same area, it just doesn't stack, or another example, Maya Purple, having 2 MP cards is the same as having 1.



10.-Can you give me a list of what cards do Race/Size/Element dmg? Which ones change your element and which ones causes status disorder?

Luckily, irowiki already did this for both of us:
http://irowiki.org/wiki/Card_Reference


Well, I think that is all for now, thank you for reading!
Last edited by Roy Revant on Fri Apr 23, 2010 4:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Gloria
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Re: A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Gloria »

Nice guide. Well written and informative. Thank you. :3
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Dowe
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Re: A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Dowe »

Could do with some formatting with headings, sections, bold, etc.

Otherwise nice I guess.
/right
Rosa
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Re: A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Rosa »

Roy Revant wrote:(1+AK bonuses)*(Rest of the formula)

Considering 4 slots, and the target be a Kasa, we can; use 4 AK cards or 3 AK cards and 1 Vadon card to have;

(1 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25) = 2.0 or 200% dmg.

(1 + 0.25 + 0.25 + 0.25)*(1 + 0.2) = 2.1 or 210% dmg.

Or if you would like to save up the AK cards, we can also use 2 AK cards and 2 Vadon cards for;

(1 + 0.25 + 0.25)*(1 + 0.2 + 0.2) = 2.1 or 210% dmg.
You could take it a step further and use 2 AK cards, 1 Vadon card, and 1 Pecopeco Egg card for:
(1 + 0.25 + 0.25)*(1 + 0.2)*(1 + 0.2) = 2.16 or 216% dmg.
Roy Revant wrote:Why when using Ghostring I still take 100% dmg from monsters? Doesn't the Ghost element has a 75% ressistance against neutral hits?

If indeed monsters hit with attacks that are reduced with Raydric, it seems that they in fact, hit with non-elemental attacks, in other words, the attacks aren't even Neutral element, they just don't have element, so they will do 100% dmg on you with their normal hits no matter what element you are, as for why Raydric reduces this dmg, well, I guess I can only say Raydric can be considered as a special card for this case. On a side-note, Homunculis hit with in the same fashion, so a Ghostring user should still take 100% dmg from regular hits coming from a Flir or so.
You could shorten this by stating that Ghostring doesn't work against monsters (it used to, but not anymore) nor Homunculi.
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Roy Revant
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Re: A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Roy Revant »

Updated, what you think of the new format?

@rosa

Last time I checked, Ghostring did work against monsters, just not when they used regular hits, rather, when they used special attacks, these situations are rare of course, and I am basing on something that was expiremented a year ago, I may need to expirement on the test server and see if it still works like that.
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Re: A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Rosa »

Yeah, against normal attacks. If they use something like Poison Attribute Attack or a skill like Soul Strike it'll apply. Also in cases such as Earthquake.
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Re: A guide on card mechanics.

Post by Phaiyte »

Rosa wrote:Yeah, against normal attacks. If they use something like Poison Attribute Attack or a skill like Soul Strike it'll apply. Also in cases such as Earthquake.

It works vs some boss attacks like Vampire's Requiem
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