Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

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Resolve
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Resolve »

Lawyer Dog wrote:
1. Most servers are not ridiculous enough to try and outlaw idling.
2. We are going to start playing again when renewal hits.
3. A rose by any other name would smell as sweet.

1. you know it was outlawed from the start. why did u even bother playing here. oh, you thought you can get away with it. too bad. this is a very simple case of cheating, and that is what is ridiculous.

2. ok. point taken.

3. its the same banana.

P.S. Know tact. It is bad enough that your people cheated, dont disgrace yourselves even more by subtly advertising for people to join your cause.
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Schooling and Education are two very, very, very different things.[/i]
Lawyer Dog
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Lawyer Dog »

Idling is in fact not against the rules (It is made harder to idle, but it is also made harder to multiclient, so that argument is out the window.)
The botting and third party program rule was vague enough that we thought there was no way they could seriously have a macro program not be allowed.
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Koma
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Koma »

Idling isn't against the rules, but there are server-side methods that disable certain things when idling. And that isn't the point either. It isn't against the rules for a normal player to move or keep their character from being idle, but the point here is that this player specifically used a third-party program to do it.

You're jumping off-topic trying to defend this case when it's not a case of "being banned for preventing idle" but a case of "being banned for using a third-party program" entirely. It's like saying someone shot another person because they hated them.. so they had every right to shoot them?

How is "Using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden." vague?

AutoHotKey = third-party program used to automate keystrokes (delay every few seconds or minutes) -- it wasn't the macro portion of the program here in question even. By standardized definition around the world: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/bot" TARGET="_blank, the automation falls under this. To claim it was the macro piece of code in AutoHotKey is incorrect as macros are just shorthand aliases.

The player wasn't even at the computer at the time of the "catch" either until 5 or 10 minutes afterwards. That player admitted they weren't even at the computer at the time. That player admitted that they were using the program in the above outlined fashion.

I'll even highlight this portion for other players to understand what he was doing: he was in Niflheim with a Homunculus. That should explain this further.
Ryukan : I was afk?
Kiana : using first aid
Kiana : while afk
Kiana : ?
Ryukan : Yep
Kiana : care to explain ?
Ryukan : It's a macro
Ryukan : Autohotkey
Ryukan : It's a simple scripting program for making macros
Kiana : You do realize that is a 3rd party program
Ryukan : Right. If you're going to ban me for something as trivial as trying not
Ryukan : to be idle, do it now
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Brian
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Brian »

If I make a robot out of Legos, K'nex, etc. that presses a key every 10 seconds will I be banned? : DDDDD It's not a third party program.
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Niia
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Niia »

i might be interested, ill try to contact some of u ingame in the near future :o
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Llysa
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Llysa »

Think it's pretty clear that this is considered "botting" since preventing idle circumvents the afk disable homu autolooting thingy.. be glad that there are no afk rules here >_> you can always try and train your cat to press the buttons for you =]
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Lawyer Dog »

All AutoHotkey can do is a macro.
To claim it was not the macro piece of code in AutoHotKey is incorrect as macros are a single computer instruction that results in a series of instructions in machine language, which is exactly what an AutoHotkey script does.
With idling not being considered at all, Castile was banned permanently at first offense for using first aid without being at his computer, which sounds a bit absurd.

"Using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden. This applies primarily to packet modification and programs outside of the provided clients that communicate with the server."

You yourself seem to be saying that a macro used for something besides anti-idling is fine and dandy, which implies that not all third-party programs to assist you in-game are forbidden, which is also what we believed. If you want proof that we thought it was vague enough to allow macros you need look no further than your own log that you posted, where Castile doesn't hide that he was using AutoHotkey at all.
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Koma
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Koma »

I am implying that "Using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden". How are you getting that I'm saying use of ANY third-party program is "fine and dandy"? If the quotation isn't enough, I'll say it again: using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden. Again, I ask, what isn't clear about this?

Again, I also mention that it isn't the case of "outlawing idling", and is the case of using a "third-party automation program". Most servers *will* ban you for such and it's common sense.

"All AutoHotkey can do is a macro."

I already posted the lines from the AutoHotKey website itself that explain that you are wrong in this sense. Why would he need a "macro" to use ONE skill to stay active? And how is a "macro" triggered on its own when the person utilizing it is AFK? Henceforth, this is automation, not merely a macro. AutoHotKey can be scripted as exemplified in their tutorial even such like this:

Code: Select all

You could also specify a variable after the word Loop, which is useful in situations where the number of iterations is determined somewhere inside the script:

Loop %RunCount%
{
    Run C:\Check Server Status.exe
    Sleep 60000  ; Wait 60 seconds.
}

A loop may also terminate itself when one or more conditions change. The following example clicks the left mouse button repeatedly while the user is holding down the F1 key:

$F1::  ; Make the F1 key into a hotkey (the $ symbol facilitates the "P" mode of GetKeyState below).
Loop  ; Since no number is specified with it, this is an infinite loop unless "break" or "return" is encountered inside.
{
    if not GetKeyState("F1", "P")  ; If this statement is true, the user has physically released the F1 key.
        break  ; Break out of the loop.
    ; Otherwise (since the above didn't "break"), keep clicking the mouse.
    Click  ; Click the left mouse button at the cursor's current position.
}
return
Lawyer Dog, please refer to Castille regarding what was exactly done with the program in question. It may be better if you have seen for yourself -- you may be surprised. To tell the truth, we had another case similar to this where the guy tried to pass it off as the Homunculus skill trigger bug, but later on, ended up showing us a screenshot of a program* located* in his AI folder that did delayed keypresses that wasn't a HomAI at all. This was after pushing for the proof. If you would like to claim that it was *only* a macro. Please e-mail the exact configuration to staff@amistr.net" TARGET="_blank. We'll give you the benefit of the doubt as was done in that case.
Brian wrote:If I make a robot out of Legos, K'nex, etc. that presses a key every 10 seconds will I be banned? : DDDDD It's not a third party program.
With some good mechanical engineering, that wouldn't be considered a program, otherwise, you'd be utilizing the Lego software to script this -- then that would be a program. However, you'd run into the issue of having your Homunculus die from lack of feeding unless you somehow manage to get this automated BUT this would still fall under "botting" if not necessarily a "third-party program" -- which is why that / is there.
Lawyer Dog
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Lawyer Dog »

Koma wrote: "All AutoHotkey can do is a macro."

I already posted the lines from the AutoHotKey website itself that explain that you are wrong in this sense. Why would he need a "macro" to use ONE skill to stay active? And how is a "macro" triggered on its own when the person utilizing it is AFK? Henceforth, this is automation, not merely a macro. AutoHotKey can be scripted as exemplified in their tutorial even such like this:


Lawyer Dog, please refer to Castille regarding what was exactly done with the program in question. It may be better if you have seen for yourself -- you may be surprised. To tell the truth, we had another case similar to this where the guy tried to pass it off as the Homunculus skill trigger bug, but later on, ended up showing us a screenshot of a program* located* in his AI folder that did delayed keypresses that wasn't a HomAI at all. This was after pushing for the proof. If you would like to claim that it was *only* a macro. Please e-mail the exact configuration to staff@amistr.net" TARGET="_blank. We'll give you the benefit of the doubt as was done in that case.
You do not seem to understand what a macro is. You seem to be thinking that if loop is used in the script of a macro it magically becomes something else. I have no idea how anyone can even think that it is blowing my mind. What pray tell does a macro become when it uses a loop function?

You say that
Koma wrote:I am implying that "Using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden". How are you getting that I'm saying use of ANY third-party program is "fine and dandy"? If the quotation isn't enough, I'll say it again: using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden. Again, I ask, what isn't clear about this?
But later in the same post you say
Koma wrote:If you would like to claim that it was *only* a macro. Please e-mail the exact configuration to staff@amistr.net" TARGET="_blank. We'll give you the benefit of the doubt as was done in that case.
Wowzers! It's almost like you're contradicting yourself! Castile stays banned if it's not "*only* a macro" but if it is "*only* a macro" he's not. But both are the same THIRD-PARTY PROGRAM! Nothing's unclear here!


Anyway, here's a macro for anti-idling that doesn't even use loop! Wow! I await your response with bated breath, I want to see how you think even the LENGTH of the macro makes it not a macro anymore (Not e-mailing because this is the simplest thing to figure out ever, if you can figure out how to download a macro program you could get something similiar to this.)

Code: Select all

#Usehook On ;;A command to allow the hotkey to maintain its original function when used in Send {hotkey}.
$F3:: ;;When F3 is pressed, do the following
Send {F3} ;;Simulates pressing F3
Sleep 120000 ;;Waits 120000ms
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Sleep 120000
Send {F3}
Macros! Fun!
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Koma
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Koma »

Looking at that script.. every 2 minutes after hitting F3, you have the program hitting F3 for you for about 24 minutes. Tell me how this isn't automation now.

And please explain to me how this differs from an Autoclicker since you're obviously defending users of those too. They simply input time and location and click to initiate it in a similar method -- which is just program interaction, not packet level interaction. And continue along your way to tell me that scripted botting is permissable too as long as it's not "responding or interacting". If you cannot defend these methods as well, it's impossible to argue the case for AutoHotKey.

And no, I was just giving you the benefit of the doubt similar to what was given to that other person.

I'm going to run down the list of questions, and try not to go outside of the rules -- going outside of the rules will just break your case even further.

Answer ONLY "yes" or "no" to any questions that do not specifically ask for an explanation.
If you want to explain your answers, do so after you have finished separately from your immediate list of answers.
  1. Is it a third-party program?
  2. Does it automate certain tasks?
  3. Does it require you to be present throughout all periods of usage?
  4. What certain tasks are you trying to automate? (Explain)
  5. Does it allow you to accomplish tasks in-game without being present?
  6. What are you trying to avoid or do by doing this automation? (Explain)
  7. What are your benefits of using this program? (Explain)
  8. Do you believe your program would be supported by the player community?
  9. Do you have problems with other players doing the same tasks via a different method?
  10. Do you support third-party programs?
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