Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

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Lawyer Dog
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Lawyer Dog »

You are trying to defend your idea of the spirit of the rule, not the rule as it is written. The rule becomes unclear with the use of "primarily" and no rule against idling, and the ridiculous way dual clienting is done.
If you had a clear rule against idling there would be no problems here.
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Koma
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Koma »

You keep considering this as an idle issue -- when we keep going back and saying it's a third-party program issue. Repeatedly.

There's no issue with players that don't use a third-party program and then proceed to idle and move their character manually to prevent idle, now is there?
Sushi
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Sushi »

cause it has already become an AHK topic rather than a guild one i'll juste post here. from what i've seen, using AHK for instantaneous things such as multi-poting/switching is still allowed? wouldn't want to be banned for a misunderstanding. (should i say my laptop always runs a simple AHK script to remap a broken key? xd)
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rephikul
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Re: Otterpops

Post by rephikul »

When you weren't clear of the rule, why didnt you ask the GMs? Or you have reasons not to? Srsly, stop playing dumb.

On a side note, on an another server you actually had to move to reset idle timer.
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Resolve
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Resolve »

Lawyer Dog wrote: If you had a clear rule against idling there would be no problems here.

Rule #12- Do Not Act Stupid
It's hard to give this rule much of a description, but don't do anything that, while not being listed above, is obviously something that would not be allowed.

Punishment: For acting stupid varies depending on the level of stupidity.


Source: viewtopic.php?f=57&t=5
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Schooling and Education are two very, very, very different things.[/i]
Ocksi
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Ocksi »

Just out of curiosity, how is a macro program illegal for idling, but legal for autopotting and such? It's the same third-party program assisting gameplay.
Answer ONLY "yes" or "no" to any questions that do not specifically ask for an explanation.
If you want to explain your answers, do so after you have finished separately from your immediate list of answers.

1. Is it a third-party program?
2. Does it automate certain tasks?
3. Does it require you to be present throughout all periods of usage?
4. What certain tasks are you trying to automate? (Explain)
5. Does it allow you to accomplish tasks in-game without being present?
6. What are you trying to avoid or do by doing this automation? (Explain)
7. What are your benefits of using this program? (Explain)
8. Do you believe your program would be supported by the player community?
9. Do you have problems with other players doing the same tasks via a different method?
10. Do you support third-party programs?
\

1. Yes
2. No*
3. No**
4. Easing is not the same as automating.
5. Yes
6. Having to be at the computer for the entirety of your farming.
7. Time is money, friend.
8. Yes
9. Nope***
10. Yes****

*AHK still requires input, just less input than "legitimate" play. Thus, not automatic, only semi-automatic.

**Via /noctrl, you aren't required to be at your computer for the entirety of what you're doing, either. I always AFK when leveling archers, personally. Beyond that, you've already said this isn't an issue of being idle, only using third party programs, so I don't see how any level of automation to prevent idling is the issue. The issue as you, the moderator, have presented it, lies in third party programs. Which means potspam macros, hunter-DS macros, and UI overlays are all bannable, and should begin being enforced immediately.

***Other players have already admitted to using AHK mods to potspam in this very thread. That seems like some level of support. That said, being that you probably consider that a "legal" use of an AHK mod, the "strict prohibition" on third party mods is gone out the window, and you really should try to realize that you're saying stealing is bad, but robbing is ok. Beyond that, certain macros could not be properly enforced simply because they would have to be admitted to by the user.

****Some third party programs are great. Game overlays to add buff timers, true AOE range circles, etc. make the game much better, both visually and mechanically.
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Koma
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Koma »

A macro program isn't legal at all for those things or anything as it still falls under being a third-party program. And the removal of players that WPE/RPE macro DS spam and Cultivate spam is already covered in the WPE disconnections and flagging. Players have been banned for these instances as well (especially the many that tried @ Thors).

For some interesting reading, one would simply have to look at the response given by corporate entity Activision-Blizzard: http://elitistjerks.com/f32/t25906-autohotkey_thread/" TARGET="_blank in their stance of "one keypress = one action". This effectively nullifies the argument that "RO is an outdated game and that newer games support this behavior" as well.
This is not okay. One hardware function = one action, according to standard macro rules. A hardware function is a keypress (including press/release) associated with movement and an ability/item. Obviously, our default macro rules enable you to use 'modifying' trinkets or abilities, such as nature's swiftness, plus a single spell all in a single press.

To clarify: No, you may not use hardware or software to auto-spam your shot rotations - period.
In response to "time is money", understand that there are actual players that farm normally. It is also detracting from their hard work -- but then again to some, this has its positives and negatives such like the laying off of the auto industry manual workers due to robotic/automated replacements.

In regards to Sushi's question, remapping of keys is less offensive, considering that that would not be automation and isn't working to assist a player (no different from moving the key physically if it was possible), but utilizing a third-party program would still fall under this category (although quite difficult to detect) and very much advised against if possible.

To cut this short, there are players who play this game as it is. Then there are players that don't play this game and let something or someone else do all of the work and then later take credit for it. If the latter is acceptable, then there's no reason to be playing with other people. There is no reason to even play at all. Simply go on Wool and @command everything. It's much easier and gets you straight to where you want to be. Why waste the time when there's obviously no effort desired?
Sushi
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Sushi »

about potspam, i think we must consider the mechanics of RO when we debate about that. pretty sure everyone will admit RO is a keyboard destructing game, enabling and encouraging keyspam; with that in mind, is the fact that we can transform 5 keystrokes into 1 that bad? it doesn't make us consume more or less pots, it just reduces the amount of times we smash our keyboard. if there are rooms for abuse, then why not simply put a 200 ms like delay between pots? 5 a sec isn't that bad anyway but won't allow LK to resplenish life using Red Potion.

on the other side, automation is a completely other thread that i do not support.
Lawyer Dog
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Lawyer Dog »

I agree with banning all third-party programs that assist players without specification. Let's go through some of the more common ones.

Winamp/Foobar/Zune/etc - Listening to music can make the grind less tedious, which is an advantage over those that don't use these!

Firefox/Internet Explorer/Chrome/Opera - This one is obvious, players are using a third party program to gain access to detailed monster and skill information that is not available in-game.

RCX Open - Whoa now people are using an enhanced third-party interface instead of mucking around with the terrible default RO one? AND IT'S JAPANESE? This is straight out.

Hex Editors - Editing game files to gain an advantage? Come on now this is just silly why is this allowed.

Ventrilo/Skype - Huge advantages over the in-game chat system, including bypassing one of the downsides of the skill Frenzy! Seeing as another topic already went over why removing the SG blind is wrong, I don't see why this is allowed!

(using Blizzard to back you up on anything is hilarious as they have become so money-grubbing it is almost hard to believe)
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Resolve
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Re: Otterpops [NO GURLS ALOUWD]

Post by Resolve »

The guy up above has a really good sense of humor for letting you be born with fingers.
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Schooling and Education are two very, very, very different things.[/i]
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