Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

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Dowe
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by Dowe »

Well I remember when I FIRST joined the server, I was sitting in town bumming around as usual and one of the GMs appeared(can't remember who exactly, think it was Kiana). Anyway, somehow the topic fell onto GRF edits and I was told that any non-cosmetic GRF edits were frowned upon by the staff. I for one agreed with this view.

Unfortunately not much can be done to verify the user's GRF file hasn't been edited. However some things CAN be done for at least some of these edits (but only if they ever become a problem). If sonic blow and VA becomes a problem, a short skill delay could be implemented. Read little into this.

But overall, it is an honor system. Not much can be done to stop this happening. On the upside, there are few edits that are entirely game changing.

Anyway... BACK ON TOPIC




Those edits are actually pretty awesome. I'm considering of getting a few of those myself. I hardly see why they would be a MASSIVE problem. Although asking was probably the right move.
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by Phaiyte »

Dowe wrote: Those edits are actually pretty awesome. I'm considering of getting a few of those myself. I hardly see why they would be a MASSIVE problem. Although asking was probably the right move.
Man, someone finally gets it.
+1

Anyways, I honestly believe this thread is done.
The questions have been answered and there's really no more room for discussion.
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by cometodru »

Just because I don't see things the way you do doesn't mean hostility. If you're asking just for the sake of asking, then you have another useless thread, just like when you were asking for limitations on guild emblems. If you're not looking to get anything out these posts you keep making, why make them? It'd be the same as if I were to make a post asking what filters I could code into the client, knowing that filters can give a completely unfair edge in the game. As long as the ones I want can be used, who cares if the other ones get thrown into the mix, so long as I'm not the one using them. If you're going to ask for limitations, it's only natural that someone enforce those limits. If there's not going to be any enforcing of said limits, for whatever reason, then there can't be limits placed in the first place.

The fact that you want to know what you can and can't do doesn't bother me. The fact that you and your little fan club can't see that when you ask for a limit, there also has to be enforcement of that limit is what's bothering me. Correct me if I'm wrong. Or maybe I should say this another way. All you want to know is what the GMs say you can do. What happens when someone does what's not allowed is unimportant because you feel as though it won't affect you, so why bother even asking how the GMs are even going to enforce what they say you can and can't do.

You asked:
what's the boundary on it all in general?
From the beginning you should have asked for what changes are frowned upon, not what you are bound to. See how changing a couple words now closes certain doors but opens other ones? Had you asked for what's frowned upon, we wouldn't be having this conversation. I would have responded with something along the lines of, "I rather people not shorten skill animations."
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Dowe
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by Dowe »

He was asking if such edits were allowed by the GMs. Although it may be hard to detect, he was at least nice enough to ask before he applied them. He didn't want to do anything that might put people offside. >_>

I think you might have taken this the wrong way. He wasn't saying LOL BAN GRF EDITS, he was asking if said edits were allowed as a guideline for what is "allowed" here. Just because its based upon an honor system doesn't mean you shouldn't abide by any (possibly) existing rules.


Please don't turn this into a further flame war unnecessarily.
Last edited by Dowe on Sat Feb 27, 2010 3:21 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by Dowe »

God damnit. How did i double post again. *DELETE ME*
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by cometodru »

LOLOL Then maybe he should word things differently. You can't say one thing but mean another. Tell me how asking for the boundaries of what you can do is the same as asking if you can do it. Two different concepts. I even quoted Haelstrom. From the question he asked, he didn't want to know if you could, he wanted to know to what extent you could.

Let me quote him some more:
Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.
what are the limits on cosmetic modifying?
I don't want to do so to a point I can attribute me beating another player to that edit, as that's when I feel it goes too far.
I'm merely asking what's legit on these items and what isn't?
where does one end stop and the next begin?
I'm wanting to know what this server finds to be acceptable. Punishment or lack there of is irrelevant to me
I will thus mod to what's permissible here, and let it be known where the general line is drawn for others
So now, from what he has said, tell me where I am flawed in wanting to know how we will enforce these limits/boundaries of editing. If you can't enforce a limit, it's pointless to ask for it.

Maybe someone has had enough sense to stumble across elecom shield. Lance does some great stuff, but even with it in place, editing can still be done. So in the end, it might not be worth the cost of getting it for the server. Maybe it is. Then again, as with all shielding, it's only a matter of time before it's leaked how to get around it.
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Dowe
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by Dowe »

I fail to see where he is suggesting that limits be enforced on GRF edits, or where he says he wants to dominate the world via edits. He asked if the examples he gave crossed any moral line.

Please try to stop the accusations. None of this is really even relevant to the topic first posted >_>
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by cometodru »

Dowe wrote:I fail to see where he is suggesting that limits be enforced on GRF edits, or where he says he wants to dominate the world via edits.
How about this one, from the original post:
Haelstrom wrote:what are the limits on cosmetic modifying? Are such simple "advantages" worth restricting when they're already doable and then some via other means, and what's the boundary on it all in general?
If there's a limit you're not supposed to cross, is that not a rule to what you can't do? Should we as players and GMs of this server not try to keep everyone from crossing that line or are we hypocrites and say, "Don't do this, this, and this," and stand by as we know people will do it anyways? If you'd rather the later, then don't ask for limitations to begin with. Like I said, if Haelstrom was simply asking what would be frowned upon, he would not have asked what the limit is, but rather how far before it becomes frowned upon. The point of boundaries is to stay within them, when those boundaries are breached and can be proven, there should be a consequence of sorts. If there are no consequences for breaching it, then it's not in fact a boundary or limit of any kind.

OR:
Haelstrom wrote:I'm merely asking what's legit on these items and what isn't?
To say that some of these edits could be illegit could suggest that this rule could be bent, if not broken:
Rule #8 - Bug Abuse
If you find a bug in-game, fail to inform staff about it, and continue to exploit this bug for your personal gain, you are breaking the rules and will be punished accordingly.

Reporting: N/A

Punishment:

* First Offence: Jail
* Second Offence: Ban
Could we not also apply this next rule?
Rule #3 - Botting or Third-Party Programs
Using a botting/third-party program to assist you in-game is strictly forbidden. This applies primarily to packet modification and programs outside of the provided clients that communicate with the server.

Reporting: 1-3 Screenshot(s) of the offence taking place - including PM's to the person asking them anything to provoke a conversation while attempting in any way you see fit to prove they are a bot -- within these rule limitations.

Punishment: Ban
Although it applies primarily to packeting, it is not limited to just that. To edit a GRF, isn't a third-party program used? If you were to gain an upper hand, wouldn't that be using the third-party program to assist you?
Dowe wrote:Please try to stop the accusations. None of this is really even relevant to the topic first posted >_>
What accusations? How is what I'm saying not relevant to the first post? I'm not calling him a liar or a cheat. I'm just saying we need to think this one through before we decide to say what will and won't be allowed. If we're going to say something of that nature, we need to be able to back it up as a server. We also need a definitive way to prove when someone has breached those limits.
Dowe wrote:He asked if the examples he gave crossed any moral line.
I don't remember seeing that anywhere. Point it out.
Last edited by cometodru on Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:10 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by Dowe »

I still think you are confusing "moral guidelines" and "formal rules" though.
Last edited by Dowe on Sat Feb 27, 2010 7:11 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cosmetic Editing: Limitations.

Post by cometodru »

Aren't rules based on moral guidelines or are they made up on a baseless whim?
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