(+) Suggestion on WOE SE

[starlight]

I think guardians/barricade on SE woe should be nerfed?
Those guardians are too strong for the minute amount of people attending SE woe that it is unfair for the attacking team.
Second edition castle never broke for probably like 3 weeks straight already. The last time it broke was because cbs, the defending guild were away. Guardians did most of the killing rather than ppl defending.
SE Woe pretty much ended after all barricades were set up.
600k life barricade is meant to hold like 100+ ppl not like 10 people....


Suggestion:
-only one barricade at emp room. Six 600k hp barricade is more than enough for castle defense.
-nerf guardians to equal 1st edition woe guardians, or just remove them

I talked to several people and they all agreed.

[Haelstrom]

I'm mixed. On one hand, yes, I feel that once it gets to the last 1/4th of the WoE, if offense hasn't made a good effort on here, it's not gonna happen..

But on the other, I feel it's entirely possible to take care of current guardians/barricade. Usually in the current SE map, this is what I've observed:

(Nothing for about 20 minutes, giving us [Celestial Being] ample time to prepare, buff up, get characters situated.)

Then guilds attack us. And sure, they're usually in good numbers.. but they zerg rush and poorly. I.E. 2~4 people at a time and with no real strategy other than "RUN BY THE ENEMY AND HOPE WE GET THERE HUHR" with some Asuras sprinkled in. Usually, they end up leading guardians back to the entrance rather than killing them.

I rarely ever see guilds with Full Chemical Protect, so I usually screw over a few people before they ever get away from that choke point. I rarely see players come in larger than 1~4 people max at a time, and despite how easy it is to at least obtain an Evil Druid - what few that do come in are poorly geared and poorly prepared. And coming from a Stalker main that doesn't wear accessories, body armor (most of the time), garment, or shield to WoE, that's saying something.

Then what times I do see them get past and recall, they don't do it properly. They'll go attack a stone? Then get split up, lets us build up our numbers back at the entrance while a few of us go play "gradual kill" duty, and it goes right back to the beginning. Then last half of WoE, we get so bored, we have guild-mates de-guild, join another guild, and attack us. And they usually do a better job solo. Finally, somebody gets angry-pants the last 10 minutes in main chat, and another SE WoE is complete.

I wouldn't say guardians did most of the killing as much as "we picked off high priority targets and let stragglers run off to their deaths at the hands of guardians." Full Divesting a Lord Knight and watching them run off down the right path thinking "I CAN ZERK, I GOT THIS" is too funny. Though to be fair, one fun strategy I was doing, was when a guardian was by entrance and I just Close Confined people who came in, sat, and watched the guardian do work. Was gewd.

Yeah, the SE is pretty hellacious for just a few guilds attending it, and it's (more) difficult to take than defend by a good margin. But I feel those guilds attacking have quite a few options to make far better attempts than they have, too. So I'd say I'm conflicted on this.

[Qembek]

Second Edition Woe Guardians are already nerfed, and you cant upgrade them by invest. at least it were like that when I was woe active.

my guild stopped attending second editions cause not overpowered guardians, too strong barricades but beucause of that:
viewtopic.php?f=26&t=889" TARGET="_blank
first time it happend i was told that my explanations weren't true and it didnt happen as i said, so second time i made a screenshot.

and Im putting this little offtopic here cause i believe that bug might be your main issue during se.

[starlight]

Yes it is breakable, but it is just too hard for the amount of people we have attending SE woe currently.
Castles should change hands from time to time during woe.
Obviously those guardians/barricade are for very large woe. So for our case, those guardians should also get nerfed according to the scale?
Yes It is partly the attacker's fault for not being organized enough/not rushing, but I think it is more because of guardians. Guardians should only be a minor obstacle, not main damage disher.
Just a suggestion.

[MayChan]

I think the only way Guardians can be a damage dealers, if they were grouped by 1-3. By one, they are not that strong or damage dealing. As Hael stated, you guys have kind of lured the guardians to either one side or to the entrance yourselves, which apparently to be in guardians groups of 1-3. Thus as you guys try to get through, you get mobbed by the groups you lured away or you ran into them. Also as a HP I'm not sure if it works or not, but I do it anyway. I buff the guardians, so that might have some little affects of damage dealing on them. As the barricades, CB and other guilds have went through attacking side before, and it was difficult. Though, I think it's still possible even with little people. Though, if it IS too strong for the current status of the server, it could be somewhat lowered.

[starlight]

Well, as i said before, the point is not that it is impossible to take guild, just too much advantage for for defending guilds given the amount of people attending woe.
But it is just a suggestion to make woe more fun, if too many oppose it, then I guess we should not implement it.

Would be nice to get some opinion from the attacking side too? (if any of them is on forum that is)

[Glorich]

As you can see, not many people in the server are attending WOE SE, because they felt that the defending side just have too much advantage, it takes mere 2 minutes to build up barricades, but take forever to take it down. And ONCE it is down, it'll still take quite a while to get through with the little amount of people that are attacking, once 2 minutes are up, the barricades is up again....I don't think it's so fair for the attacking side, with the guardians and such high hp barricades which can be rebuilt in such a short time.

Ofcourse the defending guild love it, but I just think it would be more fair to nurf it down or do something with the defensive system so that it'll be fair to the attacking team.

[Haelstrom]

Ofcourse the defending guild love it,

Hell to da no.

I don't even participate in SE WoE unless someone in CB specifically asks me to. Bores me to tears.

Now, I'll note that any guild that can manage to take it can hold this defensive advantage. But even when people were really "trying," I rarely see the numbers I'd see in Saturday WoEs - ever. And those that do, don't play it right. I'd say the best strategy would be a reverse-defensive - get enough numbers to pierce our initial door defense, and then be able to hold it while a limited offense goes to break the stones/barricades, thus keeping the defenders out of the SE WoE 70~90% in numbers, and making the offense over-taking the area possible. Not the easiest to execute, especially with them damnable Guardians - but they're easy to kite away somewhere less dangerous, so it's wholly doable.

What I instead have seen, saw, and sadly may always see until more guilds hop into it heavy, are a rush of SinX's that usually get aced at the door or nearby it. Pretty much, Breaker zerg. Bad Breaker zerg.

Then when that fails, they just send in their Champs hoping to kill some of us just out of spite, as they can accomplish relatively little by themselves. And bam - WoE SE is over.

Defense obviously has an advantage, but not enough of one that if several guilds tried hitting it in full force versus sending in 2~3 people while the rest go 'we did saturday, dont care lololol' - we wouldn't be in damned fierce trouble. Nerfing SE mechanics just won't fix that, sadly. It requires a different approach than FE WoE, which so few guilds seem to mind. You can't just "RUSH THROUGH HUHR" and think a 4 man group can blitz through the front gate when that is exactly where defense is its heaviest on our end, or we could go through 1,000 SE WoEs and the results will be the same.

Fact, SE WoE, we're lacking people anyway. If guilds hit it as hard as they do when they attack FE, we'd probably be screwed. They just.. never do.

[Koma]

Barricades have been reduced to 1/3rd of their natural health: 200k HP.

This is taking into consideration that this is a long-held discussions that has been suggested by many guilds in the past, not just the guilds of today. We'll see how this goes.

It's not helping either that guilds are allianced and paying each other off to NOT WoE..