BUff for extended classes

[Impulsive]

youre pretty funny Haelstorm. originally i came here to just say how you make everything more complicated than it needs to be but now i just keep laughing when i see your posts.

youre so caught up with being right that youll never accept being wrong. as soon as theres a small chance that you could be mistaken you switch your "original thoughts". first you said that i was the same person as Neryth and now you go "i knew all along you werent. youre obv another whiner"

good job. btw your sense of humor reminded me of this: http://animexx.onlinewelten.com/fotos/f ... id=4582264&" TARGET="_blank

[Neryth]

and then finish off with burst damage such as North Wind (Wind elemental Sharpshooting, an AoE spell that goes through Land Protector?!)

Besides the fact that's wrong

Similar? Same?! Not?! Not same?! Not same skill!? No?!

deals damage to all those in the area of effect . . . This skill can be cast on Magnetic Earth.

I can do the rest of this argument using only your own posts and some basic, well known information about this game. That's how hardcore your self-contradiction is. Given your lack of knowledge concerning North Wind, I'd guess that you're either a physical build or completely incompetent as a stalker. North Wind is easily the most abuseable skill Stalkers have access to, as it allows them to reach their full WoE potential by contributing an AREA OF EFFECT "hit as fast as you can click mofugga" MACHINE GUN attack to their guild.

PvP and 1v1 is fairly common. It's called a "duel". Maybe you're familiar with that term. In team PvP, the ability to require ALL OF YOUR OPPONENTS TO FOCUS ON YOU FOR SEVERAL SECONDS is invaluable. While you're futilely kicking all of them and getting prep'd for death by a Lex Aeterna or a Stone Curse, your teammates should be well on their way to insuring the demise of the opposing team. You get bonus points if you actually disrupt the enemy team's formation or setup for a few seconds, which you doubtlessly will, as they'd have to focus their main source of DPS along with at least one of their support classes to kill you, and possible a third person simply to immobilize you. Finally, all of your points regarding any conflict at all in WoE directs me to believe that you've only experienced WoE where you actually have room to breathe and properly target all of your opponents, as opposed to an actual WoE. That isn't even the final nail in the coffin. That's like the last sprinkle of dirt.

Don't talk to me about OHKO's. I mained a sinx for the longest time, until I realized it's incredibly boring and easy to play successfully. In fact, you already brought up a good point. TK Rankers are not a class you can OHKO without HEAVY preparation, via Lex Aeterna or elemental modifiers. To put this in perspective, neither a lex'd EDP SB nor a lex'd 140 INT Acid demo would OHKO a TK Ranker. It has to specifically be an E-Fist champ. I mean, the E-Fist even has a 20% chance to miss, as immobilizing you most likely entails a status effect that is removed by Dispel. That means if you know you're going to get hit by a status effect, all you need to do is Breakfall as it's coming and voila, 20% chance to stall your opponents for another 6 seconds. A FS prof can't even be the one to immobilize you, as Lex Aeterna does not stack with Stone Curse. So, you'd need something like a stalker to Close Confine you.

Now, I'm not going to be a total hypocrite and only cover one side of things, unlike some people. That's just PvP, but in WoE. Well, in WoE conditions, you're constantly being hit by several AoE skills as well as being singled out by opponents. The AoE is easily tanked by any decent TK ranker, so the only way you'd actually be shot down is by focus fire Bragi'd AD, which realistically brings down anyone who can make it past the Meteor Storms (who doesn't have Orc Hero Card).

I don't know how else to explain that TK's are beefier than LK's.

Yeah, they aren't trans-level characters. There's only one valid point you could actually bring up regarding TK Ranker balance, and it went right by your head.

The ranking system.

[dudek18]

really neryth u arent making any good points
ur just trying to QQ and make a mockery of the forums
SO pls back off and go find something else to laugh at

if u have some valid points on how usefull the extended classes are in woe and bg
at thier current state compared to woe pls let us know that
not some stupid dual statistics cause it never matter no mmo balance classes on 1v1 duels ...

in a group scenario the hp pool and def really comes into play and thats what we are trying to get at
not some stupid duel 1v1 mechanic

[Neryth]

I've already contributed my piece on SLers and Star Glads, but Haelstrom failed to come up with a witty retort, or even better, a valid counterpoint. Maybe you should start reading.

[Aredhel]

Neryth, all you did was cry about Vit and AD for about a page. How is that contributing anything to the actual thread?

[Novalmauge]

I apologize for my ignorance. Yet....

@Neryth I've gone over this forum and read all the walls... I've yet to really get your standing. Is it for or against buffing the extended classes, or maybe just buffing a few.

Just to kill the FW-Sharpshot argument... First Wind is targted with an area affect, like sharpshot. Making them both ignore Land protector. In this fact they are alike. Yet, Sharpshot scales with atk, which for snipers comes from dex (they have surplus ^^) on the flip side First Wind is mod'd by matk scaling with int for ninjas. Also First wind is also forced wind property, while Sharpshot can be any element considering the arrows/bow used.

Regarding VIT-AD and extended classes... Like I said extended get less HP per vit used.. making the benefits/consquences in getting vit much more unbalanced than trans classes. Every vit you get AD does more dmg, but extended classes get 25% less hp per vit than trans.

correct me if I'm wrong.

[Mitsuo]

Wow..I couldn't even finish reading all the posts. All I read was Haelstrom Fist providing points and Neryth ignoring them. If you can't provide a actual argument then please stop posting.

[Haelstrom]

I refuse to respond to the guy or his angry friend and have already contacted Kiana stating as such, solely because I really like this suggestion and don't want the senselessness getting this thread locked. I recommend you guys do the same, I love feeding trolls? I even love trolling trolls, I love starving trolls and then engorging them to the point they explode, but these two really aren't worth it. Especially when they've brought up literally no valid or relevant points.

Treat their posts unless they decide to join the discussion like white noise. Or C-Span.

More on topic, Noval, you've demonstrated our point on the HP/SP bonus scaling perfectly.

[Neryth]

Okay. Here's my actual input, rather than simply tearing down what Haelstrom has to say.

I disagree with Haelstrom's assessment of Ninjas, as does a majority of the RO gaming community. But he's a shut-in, so who knows where his opinions of ninjas stem from. If anything, Ninjas should receive dex bonus, int bonus, or both. Their defensive skills are oriented around slowing down and preventing enemies from hitting them, so low vit and HP should definitely be the penalty. However, I've found that they've been reduced to "skill batteries" for Stalkers, who are immune to dispel, FSK, and get ridiculous walking speed (all of this once linked). Not only this, but the general caster stalker build has more HP, is viable for Urgent Recall, and most importantly, can stealth. This makes caster stalkers far more practical for WoE and PvP. Ninja skills do not have "abysmal" or "horrendous" or "horrible" or whatever adjective for damage Haelstrom used to describe them. The trick is simply to obtain instacast, or near instacast so that you can select your opponents wisely, lock them down with flinching through Lightning Spear/Crimson Petals, each of which have advantages and disadvantages. Instacast is realistically obtainable for caster stalkers, although I'm not so certain you'd want to give a ninja insta. More int would definitely be appreciated, though.

Another beef I have with Hael is over his proposed stat changes for Soul Linkers. Realistically, they are meant for support in WoE and PvP environments through their extremely powerful buffs. I think their current stats are fine, and I honestly don't understand Hael's desire to give them +2 STR and +2 AGI over the +12 DEX (reduced to +10 if Hael gets his way) that aids in all of the cast-time related buffing a Soul Linker has to perform. Is he suggesting people who main SLers should go for a Counter Dagger STR build? Honestly?

Gunslingers are already as powerful as they need to be, as Desperado is an extremely effective AoE skill in WoE. Hael may have some sort of weird fetish with his fantasyland personal combat/lack of AoE skills in WoE, but any AoE contributed to a precast or even a battle is vital to bringing your opponents down, as it is simply a battle of Mastela/Slim White spamming to tank the AoE, with people getting picked off by sudden burst damage like Asura, EDP SB, and Acid Demo. I've seen Gunslingers used to great effect to cripple entire guilds through use of Frilldora Card+well timed Desperado. Suggesting that they require a buff is absurd, imo.

EDIT: Turns out my input is tearing down what Hael had to suggest. Woops!

[Haelstrom]

The trick is simply to obtain instacast, or near instacast so that you can select your opponents wisely, lock them down with flinching through Lightning Spear/Crimson Petals, each of which have advantages and disadvantages.

Now we're getting somewhere. I've already covered how well this approach works in any competent WoE setting before you entered the thread, unfortunately. And that's not me being sarcastic.

Is he suggesting people who main SLers should go for a Counter Dagger STR build? Honestly?

I actually am. No one "mains" a Soul Linker, and -2 dex will not be the death blow for what they currently already are and with your thinking always will be: link slaves, with mild Ka-enabling that I've also covered.

Gunslingers are already as powerful as they need to be, as Desperado is an extremely effective AoE skill

I covered this. Really, I did. I'm not at all saying Desperado is weak. I merely covered how it is not the end-all, ironically contradicting your next point, "guild crippling" skill some make it out to be in the least.

I've seen Gunslingers used to great effect to cripple entire guilds through use of Frilldora Card+well timed Desperado. Suggesting that they require a buff is absurd, imo.

They're effective, but so is any class played well. That does not mean they're not lacking, again, in the areas the thread suggests; you're missing the major point of the thread I feel. I don't want them to gain some ridiculous super-buff of massive proportions, I want what classes are applicable to have comparable HP/SP, and for the extended to have reasonable JBonuses that don't stop at jLVL 49 with low and mostly useless bonuses by the end of their leveling career at that. It's simple, really.