BUff for extended classes

[dudek18]

I could try but couldn't explain it better than Haelstrom
I'm in Awe of u !! :p

I hope more ppl read this and get better idea of how the mechanics really work
please do play the class see how it works(not my friend says so it must be true..) don't just base it on theory and calculations when u say the GS is overpowered and stuff and can dish out so much damage per hit ,, cause really u need to be lucky to be alive to make that hit ..

Like Haelstrom mentions the core problem is not in the the skill set we have
which may be just about ok but with the hp,sp def capablities (whcih amount to some redux gear , hp boosting gear higher mdef, def gear being unusable by most extended classes) use them to any good effect ...

Thanks for all the great input guys

[Haelstrom]

It's not a problem man. From what Kiana has told me, it's not favored by staff currently - but that if more people give input and it's overall positive, it'll be looked at in a better light. (This is only quoting what I heard in Vent mind you, I'm not putting words in anyone's mouth.)

But it just seems like a terrible waste, all in all, to keep them as they are and frankly let the mentioned classes stagnate, especially if Gravity has absolutely no intentions in regards to updating them.

[Impulsive]

hi im haelstrom

tl;dr. l2 express yourself without writing an essay

[Aredhel]

hi im fail

l2 appreciate the effort people put in to get the right things done.

[Impulsive]

sorry, didnt realize buffing a class no one uses was important

ill be more considerate from now on

[Haelstrom]

hi im haelstrom

tl;dr. l2 express yourself without writing an essay

Boy is trying to troll and failing somethin' FIERCE!

Also, I use every class. 'Cos I can. Master of all, jack of a box, what's up.

Also, our trollee ironically helped prove my point:

sorry, didnt realize buffing a class no one uses was important

Few people utilize them when they can use main / transcendent classes in WoE, because they've more to bring to the table and thus, often times an extended outside of a SL slave is seen as dead weight.

But they're just fine. They're for fun! I like classes that're weaker than others due to arbitrary reasoning for low job bonuses and HP/SP limitations, makes me giggle.

Also, I apologize to this guy for not responding to him, I didn't see his post earlier:

what point is there to get?

every class is important, just because the stat or hp growth or ''gear restriction'' is different, that would make them useless?

simple

l2p

bye

ps; ro is mostly down to skill, not gear - sure its a factor but still doesnt change how the game works

Twig / M16 argument. Also, if you only need skill, why does doing this bother you? It shouldn't matter, you only need skill!

just for the lawls, clearly 3x hp/sp (or was it 4x?) on a ranker isnt enough - maybe suggest double and give them 40k on a ranker huaheahe

Not even once did I suggest we increase Ranker HP even farther. And if you're too lazy to Google basic class components, you shouldn't rush to dismiss a subject like this - let alone tell me to L2P, I'm afraid.

This is mostly concerning job level bonuses, and what extended that're severely lacking in HP/SP, as well as what are lacking in gear options. On the latter, Ranker is obviously not one anyone is wanting boosted in the HP category.

[Impulsive]

trolling is boring; im stating my opinion. i think its dumb to write a wall of text if you can say it in a few words

[Haelstrom]

People tend to not be persuaded with only a few words, regretfully. Might I suggest you instead learn how to speed read? It's a good thing to master.

More than just for school, it'll make your life outside of Ragnarok where more messages granted, are just 2-4 words long, a lot easier.

[Neryth]

I'll sum this up. If you need me to give you sources source for the individual cliff'd "arguments", please say so. I'd be happy to quote your own junk right back at you, and challenge you to weasel your way out of accepting that the quote is simply my summarized points minus the sophistry you worked so hard to fit in.

Haelstrom: ALL OR NOTHING IT'S ALL OR NOTHING WHAT'S MODERATION I'VE NEVER HEARD OF SUCH THING ALL OR NOOOOOTHIIIIIIIING AAAAAAAAAAAAA NO YOU DON'T HAVE A CHOICE OTHER THAN THAT IT'S ALL OR NOTHING NO STOP TRYING TO BE REASONABLE JUST CHOOSE ALL OR NOTHING GOSHHHH

Haelstrom: *insert flimsy argument that Gravity really luvs extended dey r defntly not novelty, backed up by a blatant disregard for the massive time gap between the release of extended classes and the announcement of 3rd class/renewal*

Haelstrom: I'm good at setting up Strawman arguments.
*Haelstrom uses Logical Fallacy! Haelstrom takes 20 points credibility damage!*

Haelstrom: I think the class that is the easiest to level assuming you have some zeny (and there is LOTS of zeny to go around on official servers) should also be PvP/WoE effective.

Haelstrom: I've played RO since [insert bug or release]. Just saying. I'm totally not saying that just to try and persuade you that my point is valid based solely on the amount of time I've played this game, and not actual proof or facts. Also, I'm not aware of how the SKILL (not stat) sets of the extended classes are what's meant to balance their potential vs trans potential. Instead, I'm going to focus on how they get inferior stat bonuses, stat pool, and HP/SP pool. Let's just pretend their massive skill advantages are non-existent OOOOOOO KKKKKKK???????

Haelstrom: I think TK rankers only have "competent" HP (despite the fact that it has the potential to rival LK/Paladin HP, and is superior to 90% of all SinX's HP. To put it in perspective, they can get 16k HP easily, and their max is over 22k)

Haelstrom: TK's are melee, therefore they suck. I'm going to automatically assume the priest to other class ratio in PvP and WoE is 1:1, and every player has a priest to put up SW whenever they want them to. (this is assuming your priest has extremely good reflexes and an extremely fast cast time so that they can put up the SW before they themselves are stunlocked to death)

Haelstrom: I'm going to compare EDP SB output damage to Sprinting/Spurt FSK output damage rather than the modifiers at work.

Haelstrom: I'm going to claim that TKs get little durability to begin with, despite the fact that we're talking about TK rankers, who have about as much durability as a fully geared lvl 99 trans.

Haelstrom: I'm going to claim that TK rankers can't make up for their inability to use Hydras/Skel Worker Cards. e v e r

Haelstrom: Here, I attempt to use sarcasm to drag attention away from the fact that this extended class can mob and kill monsters almost as effectively as a LK.

Haelstrom: oops kihop but let's pretend the issue of being unable to use skelworker/hydra cards and a massive % based boost to damage resulting from a passive skill are unrelated. i'm actually going to SHOOT MYSELF IN THE FOOT by mentioning their inability to use +% damage cards right after mentioning a passive skill that MORE than compensates for it

Haelstrom: AD > TK rankers!!!!!1!1111

I'm going to have to break the quote train here and give you some cold, hard facts.

A Creator with 140 INT does 35480 damage to someone with 150 VIT. That seems reasonable, right? After WoE reductions, that's 21280 damage. Still an almost guaranteed kill. Lethal, right? Wait, we forgot reductions. So that's either 11910 or 12060 damage (Thara+Raydric or Noxious). That's a really small difference, but for the sake of favouring the AD > TK rank argument, I'll go with 12060 (Noxious). So, that damage is insane, right? Right. But who actually WoEs with 150 VIT? Let's tone it down to something reasonable. Generally, WoE builds have 80-100. For the sake of once again favouring the AD > TK argument, let's say 100 VIT. The damage is now 9720 after all of the reductions. Still hardcore damage, right? Oh wait. If a TK has 100 VIT, he'll also have 20k+ after a +10% HP footgear card, so it'd take 3 Acid Demos to kill him. Well, that's still good, right? Clearly, AD > TK. Wait, let's compare that to another WoE class. How about SinX's? They're fairly common (lol more like they're everywhere). A 70 VIT sinx will also get 3 shotted assuming he uses Cranial, Raydric, Peco Peco carded armor, and Assassin Dagger. However, if he is missing any one of those pieces of equipment, he'll go down in two shots. In order to tank 4 AD's, the SinX would need to have 30~40 VIT, which simply isn't practical in a WoE environment. Still, SinXs are admittedly a stealth class. They aren't MEANT to withstand such a LETHAL attack, right? So let's compare the TK ranker to a LK. Assuming the LK has 100 vit, +20% HP gear, and full reductions, they'd also die in 3 Acid Demos. Wait, so TK rankers are... about as susceptible to Acid Demo as other trans classes? What an Achilles' Heel! That's good to know. TK rankers die as quickly to Acid Demo as other WoE-builds. However, exclaiming that AD is a TK ranker's weakness is like saying that some random guy's weakness is bullets, or falling from a great height, or lack of oxygen. Yes, it's true, but it's nothing special and it certainly doesn't take a genius to come up with that interesting bit of information. Even if you take away WoE-reducs, you're still only proving that AD creos have massive DPS, not that TK rankers are more susceptible to it than other classes.

Haelstrom: Soul Linkers are hard to kill!? NOT IF YOU'RE A PROF, OR YOU HAVE A PROF CONSTANTLY SPAMMING DISPEL ON IT. NOT THAT I'M ASSUMING THAT IT'D BE A 2V1 OR A CLASS SPECIFIC MATCH-UP OR ANYTHING LOL

Haelstrom: Now watch me acknowledge your point (Soul Linkers have a unique and vital role in WoE), then completely ignore the fact that it supports YOUR argument, not mine.

Haelstrom: You've probably noticed by now that I keep flip-flopping between WoE and PvP environments/assumptions. No, this does not compromise the stability of my argument. Yeah, switching from WoE to PvP and vice versa whenever it suits my needs to make it look like I'm right 24/7 makes me completely credible. Watch me do it again!

Haelstrom: Here, I completely fail to see the advantage in having an active linker give buffs that reflect attacks, make me able to tank hits, and increase my own damage potential. Go me.

Haelstrom: Here, I claim that "quite a few" skills bypass Cicada Skin. You already gave 2 examples, and I'm going to give a 3rd that you missed. Apparently, 3-4 (one of which is never used, so basically your two examples and mine) constitutes "quite a few".

Haelstrom: Now I'm going to undervalue magic stunlock, and willingly display both my ignorance concerning WoE with an actual decent server population, and competitive WoE builds, strategies, and the game mechanics and logic behind using them. Also, I'm going to pretend WoE is a solo affair for the ninja, and teamwork only exists for the opposition. hur hur

Haelstrom: Here I'm going to claim that Northwind doesn't pierce Land Protector, but offer no actual evidence supporting my claim. Same as usual, folks.

Breaking the quote train once more. You must have next to no knowledge of RO game mechanics if you aren't aware of the fact that North Wind aka Kamaitachi is a Sharpshooting/Focused Arrow Strike replica using MATK and forced wind property. I have years of experience playing on WoE/PvP-oriented servers as a wide variety of classes to back up these claims. There, now my argument is just as valid as yours. You can prove that you're right and I'm wrong by offering conclusive evidence contrary to my claim. I'm not going to bother doing that with you since pretty much everything you've said so far is ridiculous. You'll have to actually point out something I've said that isn't common sense/an obvious game mechanic before I cite sources/provide hard evidence. That's because if I give freebies, I just know I'm going to be here forever, explaining to you how Basic Skills lvl 3 allows you to sit, then supplying screenshots backing it up. More than half of what you've claimed so far is wrong, so I'd have an easier time outlining what little you said was actually correct.

I have no comment to make on Gunslingers, as they are the one class that I do believe is primarily novelty. They certainly have potential, and I would say they're inferior to snipers... but not by a terrible amount. They certainly dominate hunters, which is where extended classes are meant to be placed (between second class and transcendent).

Btw, this is all in order, too. The "quotations" are essentially most of your post, only actually acknowledging that you're a filthy, filthy sophist.

- Much love, Neryth.

p.s. Sorry, I typed this when I was tired. Now fixed a few things.

Source for Acid Demonstration damage: http://calcx.wushuang.ws/pvp.html

[Haelstrom]

I'll sum this up.

Same guy making multiple accounts just to make one-two posts to support his point? Done!

The rest are just misquotes and unfunny trolling. When you're ready to discuss the topic at hand, feel free brah. But I'll address the very few of your points that are plausible to touch:

If a TK has 100 VIT, he'll also have 20k+ after a +10% HP footgear card, so it'd take 3 Acid Demos to kill him. Well, that's still good, right? Clearly, AD > TK.

F3 F3 F3. (For your convenience, F3 has Acid Demo.)

Man! That sure was hard. I was more addressing those with the mindset of "THEY CAN PUMP ALL THE VIT IN THE WORLD AND HAVE A MOUNTAIN OF HP" to which I provided an often used problem with such an approach, not that it's their specific weakness.

Want to know Taekwon Ranker's weakness?

Anything that can't be stunned / has stun duration less than a second. If you think there's few of those in WoE, you silly.

Breaking the quote train once more. You must have next to no knowledge of RO game mechanics if you aren't aware of the fact that North Wind aka Kamaitachi is a Sharpshooting/Focused Arrow Strike replica using MATK and forced wind property.

It's exactly alike! Only completely different, I got told.

Everything else you've posted are either twistings of my words, incorrect, or inane babble with the thinly veiled intent of goading me into ragefesting with you to get the topic closed which isn't going to happen. I'll gladly reply once you've something worth replying to though.

Regards,

Lord Haelstrom the Grand

p.s. Sorry, I typed this when I was tired. Now fixed a few things.

You're not forgiven! Also, how dare you bring up philosophy in this spectrum. Begone fiend!

[Edit]:

I scrolled down the page and caught this line, and against my better judgment because I already know you're either:

A. Just wanting this suggestion denied.
B. A troll.
C. All of the above,

I've still got to reply to it.

Haelstrom: Here, I claim that "quite a few" skills bypass Cicada Skin. You already gave 2 examples, and I'm going to give a 3rd that you missed. Apparently, 3-4 (one of which is never used, so basically your two examples and mine) constitutes "quite a few".

Any skill that is affected % boosting cards will be blocked. Any skill / skill damage that is not and requires ATK, will hit. I merely gave another example, do you really need me to list every single skill in the game with that nature? Is Google that hard, you silly philosophy specter?